Have we progressed?

[travelinman]

Before the Civil Rights movement in the 60s, blacks were discriminated against but had an 80% literacy rate. Now while discrimination still exists, it's much less and the literacy rate is somewhere around 35% . Is this progress?

Before the women's movement women were discriminated against and didn't have much choice when getting a job. Now while discrimination still exists, women can get any job they want, but the average American family now needs two incomes to stay in the middle class. Is this progress?

Before the gay/lesbian movement gays and lesbians were discriminated against, but most people never thought about it and gays and lesbians didn't get raked over the coals in divorce court. Once gays and lesbians can marry (it will happen someday) someone will be paying alimony. Is this progress?

It use to be that students would start their day with the pledge of allegiance and by praying and all they had to worry about was someone shooting spitballs at them. Now students are free from religion (instead of freedom of religion) and they have to worry about someone shooting bullets at them. Is this progress?.

[gae]

I'm going to be preaching to part of the choir here, but LBJ's Great Society was the WORST thing ever for this country.

I don't care how one slices the cake, we aren't all equal.

Trav can describe buildings we were in 4 or 5 years ago. Jumper can run. AL can slice atoms or make time machines (anyone ever notice that she's strangely silent on exactly WHAT she does? Hmmm....)

We're all different. We all come to the table with different skills.

Being 50 with three adult daughters, two that I gave birth to and one by marriage, I'm glad that women now have more opportunites. But I will stand by my opinion that a woman cannot have a career and children, without one or the other suffering.

If I had my way, the feminists would just shut TFU. The point has been made.

If I had my way, the poverty pimps would disappear.

If I had my way, folks of different orientation (as long as it doesn't involve children or animals) would be left alone.

Please vote now for me as Queen of the Universe.

[Lew]

That's where I get so frustrated. A society with our technological and educational capacity should be a virtual utopia. Not perfect, of course, but close, and more importantly, getting closer every day.

But that's just it. We're not getting closer. We're going the other way.

At least Howard is going satellite....

[LAKE]

Thank you to the previous 3 for stating so accurately what I could not. Verbal is not my strong suit.

[Raven Soul]

[img]graemlins/sleepy.gif[/img]

[LanDroid]

We have progressed in many ways. The high divorce rate is one area that is often cited as a bad thing. But consider the women who were shunned for divorcing men who broke their bones or brought a new veneral disease home every six months. Of course some loonies like Brittney take it too far, but overall I don't see the wisdom in forcing people who hate each other to spend the rest of their lives under one roof. [img]graemlins/gulp.gif[/img] And yes, when gays have to suffer the pains of divorce, that will be progress from the good ol' days of "blanket parties", but relax it still goes on.

As to folks requiring two incomes to get along, keep in mind our standard of living is much higher than it was 50 years ago. One bedroom per child, not 3 children per bed, one car per parent and child over 15, air conditioning in house AND cars, college funds for children, massive entertainment centers, large music and video collections, cable TV internet telephone and cellphone services, and so on.

Eschew all of these modern conveniences, move your family into a two bedroom apartment without air conditioning, take the bus to work, and you can live on one income just like they did in the 50's...

[reason]

Originally posted by travelinman:
Before the Civil Rights movement in the 60s, blacks were discriminated against but had an 80% literacy rate. Now while discrimination still exists, it's much less and the literacy rate is somewhere around 35% . Is this progress?

Before the women's movement women were discriminated against and didn't have much choice when getting a job. Now while discrimination still exists, women can get any job they want, but the average American family now needs two incomes to stay in the middle class. Is this progress?

Before the gay/lesbian movement gays and lesbians were discriminated against, but most people never thought about it and gays and lesbians didn't get raked over the coals in divorce court. Once gays and lesbians can marry (it will happen someday) someone will be paying alimony. Is this progress?

It use to be that students would start their day with the pledge of allegiance and by praying and all they had to worry about was someone shooting spitballs at them. Now students are free from religion (instead of freedom of religion) and they have to worry about someone shooting bullets at them. Is this progress?.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I...I don't even know where to begin on this one...it's a jaw dropper. Go figure that this would make sense to Lake.

Are you making a connection between Civil Rights and illiteracy?

Are you making a connection that equal rights for women has resulted in two income families, and that if we kept women in the home baking cookies, we wouldn't have the need for two income families?

Are you saying the reason gays shouldn't marry is because straights have fucked up marriage so much that it's just not worth it?

I have a lot more to say, but I think this is enough for now.

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ October 08, 2004 07:57 AM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>

[reason]

Before the women's movement women were discriminated against and didn't have much choice when getting a job. Now while discrimination still exists, women can get any job they want, but the average American family now needs two incomes to stay in the middle class. Is this progress?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahhh....you mean before two car garages and SUV's? Before central air? Before automatic dishwashers, vcr's, wide screen televisions and fancy stereos? Before McMansions and vacation homes? Before ubiquitous fast food and routine dining out? Before a host of luxury items now available to the middle class?

[cincygreg]

It depends on your definition of progress.

We make things and create things to make our lives simpler, yet often times those same things make our lives more complex.

Who hasnt spent ten minutes looking for the remote instead of just walking over and turning on the tv manually LOL!

Just think about this, You can run an afternoon worth of errands without leaving your car.
You can get lunch, wash the car, pick up your dry cleaning, go to the drugstore, get some ice cream or baked goods, drop off your library books, go to the bank... all by using drive throughs.

[img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

[reason]

Originally posted by travelinman:
Reason,

Please read my first post. I didn't say anything. I posted facts and asked questions.


I put the gay question in just for you, it really doesn?t apply [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#000002"><font size="1">[ October 08, 2004 12:20 PM: Message edited by: travelinman ]</font></font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know your MO. But I don't really care what the intent was, I'm going to play along.